[Az-Geocaching] Re: Let's fight to keep our caches in Scotsdale
Desert Preserves: Do not acquiesce to radical "preservationist" policy
Aus Dem Kasten
listserv@azgeocaching.com
Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:08:31 -0700
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I must adimit I do not have enough information about this topic to
take a stance one way or another. I will need to look more into this
issue to develop an opinion on the matter or determine whether or not
this issue is worth the hassle at this time, considering all that is
happening in the world today.
However, I am in agreeance with Jeff that I did not join the
listserv nor do I particiapte in Geocaching to read peoples personal
rants. In part, I find it ironic that the only reason I read this
message was because it was sent to the listserv by the very same person
who referred to the message as "spam". Although, to be honest, I would
have done the same thing. I also would take offense to anyone saying
"Here's my opinion, but don't tell anyone, especially people who disagree".
To clarify what I read the email stated "*please do forward this
note to other geocachers without my permission*". I am unsure if this
was a typo, but it seems that Ken said to forward the email to
geocachers without his permission...rather than saying "do not forward
it". However, he did clearly state not to forward it to the listserv
and made it clear that he did not want Steve from Team Tierra Buena to
see it. Again, I do not have all the info on this topic, but it seems
that Team Tierra Buena seems to at least make a public stance without
trying to sneak around. I have yet to meet Steve but he must be pretty
scary to fear even sharing your viewpoint with him.
Aus Dem Kasten
geocaching@pcgraffiti.com
Jeff Moriarty wrote:
> Ken,
>
> This is an unsolicited email to me, or what is commonly referred to as
> "Spam". I didn't join the Listserv to have people send me their
> personal rants. I would be more forgiving if this was an honest email
> or some sort of worthwhile cause here, but all you did is spout off
> your own opinions from a high horse. To put frosting on the cake you
> send it to me without MY permission, then start your message telling
> me not to do something without YOUR permission.
>
> Since you so nicely ignored my preferences, I will ignore yours and
> forward your message to the list and to Team Tierra Buena directly.
> Perhaps in the future you will be more considerate of other people
> when you climb onto your soapbox.
>
> Jeff.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* ken@highpointer.com <mailto:ken@highpointer.com>
> *To:* geocaching@yahoo.com <mailto:geocaching@yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 06, 2003 3:06 PM
> *Subject:* Let's fight to keep our caches in Scotsdale Desert
> Preserves: Do not acquiesce to radical "preservationist" policy
>
> *NOTE: This is not a **Listserv@azgeocaching.com*
> <mailto:Listserv@azgeocaching.com>* posting. Please do not
> forward it to that group, and please do forward this note to other
> geocachers without my permission.*
>
> /The other and more significant reason in my opinion is the fact
> that the Commission sees the Preserve more akin to a Designated
> Wilderness Area than a Municipal Park, and the city ordinances
> that created the Preserve and the Commission back that up.
> Considered in that light, banning Geocaching makes a lot more
> sense in the Preserve than in many other public lands./
>
> I will state my opinion here: Geocaching should be permitted in
> all of the Scottsdale McDowell-Sonoran Preserve, and we as
> Geocachers should fight to maintain our rights to hide and
> maintain caches in the Scottsdale Desert Preserves. Why should we
> simply acquiesce to such a blatently unfair policy? This land is
> public land that should be available to all of us. As a
> freedom-loving American, I am fervently opposed to
> "preservationists" who want to lock us out of public lands and
> treat us like we are living in a dictatorship. (Although I
> consider myself to be a conservationist, the more I learn about
> what "preservationists" want to do and the restrictions they want
> to put on us, the more I become opposed to people like that).
>
> Let's fight to keep geocaching available on all public lands. We
> need more, not fewer, geocaches on backcountry lands, caches that
> require long hikes, are on top of mountain peaks, and are not
> close to parking areas or vehicle access.
>
> I am sending this note to geocachers individually, rather than the
> list server. I am not sending this to Steve of Team Tierra Buena
> because I very much opposed to his position on this matter.
> Therefore, please do not forward this note to him.
>
> Steve appears to be acquiescing rather than trying to fight to
> preserve geocaching. One of the caches he said should be removed
> is the Thompson Peak geocache, which I will not remove because I
> feel that it is one of the best geocaches in the Phoenix
> metropolitan area. (Geocachers who have visited it have expressed
> very favorable opinions on the log entries). We need more caches
> like this one, not fewer. (I am getting tired of many of
> these urban caches that require no physical exertion to find, and
> which often become missing after a short time).
>
> I will make this, and my other physical caches, "members-only"
> caches. Therefore, if the Scottsdale Preserve "preservationists"
> want to get and remove my cache, they would have to become a member.
>
> Ken Akerman
>
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I must adimit I do not have enough information about this topic to take
a stance one way or another. I will need to look more into this issue to
develop an opinion on the matter or determine whether or not this issue is
worth the hassle at this time, considering all that is happening in the world
today.<br>
<br>
However, I am in agreeance with Jeff that I did not join the listserv
nor do I particiapte in Geocaching to read peoples personal rants. In part,
I find it ironic that the only reason I read this message was because it
was sent to the listserv by the very same person who referred to the message
as "spam". Although, to be honest, I would have done the same thing. I
also would take offense to anyone saying "Here's my opinion, but don't tell
anyone, especially people who disagree".<br>
<br>
To clarify what I read the email stated "<strong>please do forward
this note to other geocachers without my permission</strong>". I am unsure
if this was a typo, but it seems that Ken said to forward the email to geocachers
without his permission...rather than saying "do not forward it". However,
he did clearly state not to forward it to the listserv and made it clear
that he did not want Steve from Team Tierra Buena to see it. Again, I do
not have all the info on this topic, but it seems that Team Tierra Buena
seems to at least make a public stance without trying to sneak around. I
have yet to meet Steve but he must be pretty scary to fear even sharing your
viewpoint with him.<br>
<br>
Aus Dem Kasten<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:geocaching@pcgraffiti.com">geocaching@pcgraffiti.com</a><br>
<br>
Jeff Moriarty wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid001401c2fd83$e57c0ad0$0301a8c0@kong">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; ">
<meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1126" name="GENERATOR">
<style></style>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Ken,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">This is an unsolicited email to me, or
what is commonly referred to as "Spam". I didn't join the Listserv to have
people send me their personal rants. I would be more forgiving if this
was an honest email or some sort of worthwhile cause here, but all you did
is spout off your own opinions from a high horse. To put frosting on the
cake you send it to me without MY permission, then start your message telling
me not to do something without YOUR permission.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Since you so nicely ignored my preferences,
I will ignore yours and forward your message to the list and to Team Tierra
Buena directly. Perhaps in the future you will be more considerate of other
people when you climb onto your soapbox.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Jeff.</font></div>
<blockquote dir="ltr"
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0,0,0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228,228,228) none repeat scroll 0%; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="ken@highpointer.com" href="mailto:ken@highpointer.com">ken@highpointer.com</a>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="geocaching@yahoo.com" href="mailto:geocaching@yahoo.com">geocaching@yahoo.com</a>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Sent:</b>
Sunday, April 06, 2003 3:06 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Subject:</b>
Let's fight to keep our caches in Scotsdale Desert Preserves: Do not acquiesce
to radical "preservationist" policy</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="message">
<p><strong>NOTE: This is not a </strong><a
href="mailto:Listserv@azgeocaching.com" target="_blank"><strong>Listserv@azgeocaching.com</strong></a><strong>
posting. Please do not forward it to that group, and please do forward
this note to other geocachers without my permission.</strong></p>
<p><em>The other and more significant reason in my opinion is the fact
that the Commission sees the Preserve more akin to a Designated Wilderness
Area than a Municipal Park, and the city ordinances that created the Preserve
and the Commission back that up. Considered in that light, banning Geocaching
makes a lot more sense in the Preserve than in many other public lands.</em></p>
<p>I will state my opinion here: Geocaching should be permitted in all
of the Scottsdale McDowell-Sonoran Preserve, and we as Geocachers should
fight to maintain our rights to hide and maintain caches in the Scottsdale
Desert Preserves. Why should we simply acquiesce to such a blatently
unfair policy? This land is public land that should be available to all
of us. As a freedom-loving American, I am fervently opposed to "preservationists"
who want to lock us out of public lands and treat us like we are living
in a dictatorship. (Although I consider myself to be a conservationist,
the more I learn about what "preservationists" want to do and the restrictions
they want to put on us, the more I become opposed to people like that).</p>
<p>Let's fight to keep geocaching available on all public lands. We
need more, not fewer, geocaches on backcountry lands, caches that require
long hikes, are on top of mountain peaks, and are not close to parking
areas or vehicle access.</p>
<p>I am sending this note to geocachers individually, rather than the
list server. I am not sending this to Steve of Team Tierra Buena because
I very much opposed to his position on this matter. Therefore, please
do not forward this note to him.</p>
<p>Steve appears to be acquiescing rather than trying to fight to preserve
geocaching. One of the caches he said should be removed is the Thompson
Peak geocache, which I will not remove because I feel that it is one of
the best geocaches in the Phoenix metropolitan area. (Geocachers who
have visited it have expressed very favorable opinions on the log entries).
We need more caches like this one, not fewer. (I am getting tired of many
of these urban caches that require no physical exertion to find, and
which often become missing after a short time). </p>
<p>I will make this, and my other physical caches, "members-only"
caches. Therefore, if the Scottsdale Preserve "preservationists" want to
get and remove my cache, they would have to become a member.</p>
<p>Ken Akerman</p>
</div>
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