[Az-Geocaching] Next Friday's Meeting -- Brief Status Report
Team Tierra Buena
listserv@azgeocaching.com
Fri, 20 Sep 2002 20:21:19 -0700
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Last night, those of us who are working on the meeting next week with
the various land management agencies took advantage of the chat server
here on azgeocaching.com (as always, thanks and kudos to Jason and
Brian) to review the agenda that has been set up and talk about some of
the issues we expect to be facing. We also set out assignments for the
meeting. Each geocacher in attendance will have an agency that they will
meet with directly. We hope that this will set up an ongoing
communication channel between each of the agencies and the Geocaching
community.
I am attaching a text file which is a log of most of the chat (the first
few minutes didn't make it). So if you'd like some weekend reading, you
can pretty much learn what transpired during the chat session.
If anyone would like a copy of the handouts we will be using next week,
please email me directly: our team name as one word at earthlink dot
net. Be aware that there is one PDF file which was created elsewhere
that's fairly large, so the four files together are about half a meg.
Besides the PDF there are two MS Word documents and one small PowerPoint
file.
Steve
Team Tierra Buena
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D704171103-21092002><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua">Last =
night, those=20
of us who are working on the meeting next week with the various land =
management=20
agencies took advantage of the chat server here on azgeocaching.com (as =
always,=20
thanks and kudos to Jason and Brian) to review the agenda that has =
been=20
set up and talk about some of the issues we expect to be facing. We =
also=20
set out assignments for the meeting. Each geocacher in attendance will =
have an=20
agency that they will meet with directly. We hope that this will set up =
an=20
ongoing communication channel between each of the agencies and the=20
Geocaching community.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D704171103-21092002><FONT=20
face=3D"Book Antiqua"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D704171103-21092002><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua">I am =
attaching a=20
text file which is a log of most of the chat (the first few minutes =
didn't make=20
it). So if you'd like some weekend reading, you can pretty much learn =
what=20
transpired during the chat session.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D704171103-21092002><FONT=20
face=3D"Book Antiqua"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D704171103-21092002><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua">If =
anyone would=20
like a copy of the handouts we will be using next week, please email me=20
directly: our team name as one word at earthlink dot net. Be aware that =
there is=20
one PDF file which was created elsewhere that's fairly large, so the =
four files=20
together are about half a meg. Besides the PDF there are two MS Word =
documents=20
and one small PowerPoint file.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D704171103-21092002><FONT=20
face=3D"Book Antiqua"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D704171103-21092002><FONT=20
face=3D"Book Antiqua">Steve</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D704171103-21092002><FONT face=3D"Book Antiqua">Team =
Tierra=20
Buena</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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<Steve-TTB> Well, does anyone have any comments about the agenda in =
general, first?
<Cache-Quest> What are the chances the 6 minute rule will hold?
>Steve-TTB< im going to unmoderate the channel for a second... jim's =
haveing a hard time posting
--- brian-snaptek sets mode -m #meeting
<EvilFISH> on the intro I would suggest adding the page form the local =
website showing the ages of the caches and visits
<wolfb8> just not sure why some of them are on there
<Steve-TTB> We have a professional mediator and moderator. We have the =
best chance with Lee at the helm
<EvilFISH> or getting a average of a cache is visited X times in Y =
months
<Steve-TTB> That's already done. What I did was take the oldest hundred =
active caches, and ran some descriptive stats.
<EvilFISH> Cool
<Steve-TTB> So I have a three page handout for that, and another handout =
that describes types of caches (Traditional, Virtual, Archived, etc.)
<Cache-Quest> Can you send us a copy before hand?
<Steve-TTB> Since we only get six minutes, I thought the best thing was =
to impress two points: There aren't a thousand caches on your public =
land, and the ones that are there aren't hit as often as you fear.
<Steve-TTB> I will email it after this. It's in PowerPoint, but I can =
get it in a text form. I'll just send both.
<EvilFISH> Thanks
<Steve-TTB> So... does anyone want to volunteer to do our six minutes?
* Steve-TTB playing theme from "Final Jeopardy"
<Cache-Quest> I vote for you
<EvilFISH> I second
<Steve-TTB> phhhhhht!
<wolfb8> you know the stuff best...since you put it together ...
<EvilFISH> I would Steve if I could be there
<Steve-TTB> That's a big help, Regan, thanks.
<EvilFISH> I know but between Work Family and this I have to stay with =
Family and Work.....sad face
<wolfb8> looks like you win steve
<Steve-TTB> I'm only half kidding. I don't mind, but I don't want to be =
doing the whole thing. So I am really counting on all of you for the one =
on one sessions, then.
<Cache-Quest> On any charts I would be careful on how much growth is =
showing. They might fear an upward trend
<wolfb8> no problem on that
<Steve-TTB> No time axis. Just stats as of last friday.
<EvilFISH> but the upward trend is the reason for this meeting
<Cache-Quest> see, you think of everything
<brian-snaptek> what about bob? :) if he's going to be there he would =
be good
<Steve-TTB> I'm not sure I agree Regan. We can thank (or blame) the =
Republic. Sooner or later we would have come onto their radar. It's =
happened now instead of later thats all.
<Steve-TTB> I can't give it to Bob if he's not here. That's not fair.
<Steve-TTB> I'll do it.
<brian-snaptek> sooner is probably better than later... later might =
have had people spraypaintingover the petroglyphs and us getting the =
blame for that too
<EvilFISH> but what about the Tribune articles the Peoria articles =
etc... it is because of the growing trend that the articles are being =
written both good and Bad
<wolfb8> do we know were the agencys stand right now on geocaching
<brian-snaptek> most of the people I have talked to are =
pro-geocaching... including those that were reported as against it.
<EvilFISH> and having a meeting with all these agencys will only help =
keep us from being blamed
<Steve-TTB> We know some of them. NPS is obvious. But if you look at =
Maricopa County Parks, what they're telling us now is that what's on =
their web page is not the way they feel today.
<brian-snaptek> I just met with rand hubbell today and it was all very =
positive
<Steve-TTB> We need to show them we're: law-abiding citizens, taxpayers, =
and willing to work with them.
<Steve-TTB> Now for the bad news: I can tell you with great confidence, =
that there are caches that will have to go away when this is done.
<EvilFISH> and after Friday they will
<wolfb8> like which ones
<Steve-TTB> One example that I know of for sure is Butterfield =
Battalion. It's not the hider's fault that it's now NPS property, but it =
is.
<wolfb8> <JimScotti> I had a great interaction with a Pima county police =
officer who removed one of my caches from a wildcat trail that he wanted =
to close (the trail was not marked and looked legit) - I replaced the =
cache nearby along a main trail
<Steve-TTB> Understand, it doesn't mean anyone is going to get in =
trouble, but there will be some caches they will ask us to pull.
<Cache-Quest> We don't have the authority to revome someone else's =
cache. We could make some people mad.
<Steve-TTB> No, Jerry, we don't, you're right, but...
<wolfb8> <JimScotti> He was quite pro-caching. Thought it was a great =
idea, but wanted to keep it from developing unwanted trails.
<EvilFISH> as by our willingness to pull the caches will only strengthen =
the fact that we obey the laws
<Steve-TTB> We do have the right to contact them and let them know that =
they need to be removed. Because the agencies can confiscate them if we =
don't get themremovved.
<kevin> @/VOICE JimScotti
<desertsol> Well, I think that's where the idea of each of us taking an =
agency comes in. If there is a cache that needs to be removed, be act =
as the go between to get the agency and hider together to work something =
out
<brian-snaptek> I think we should establish a system for removing caches =
for people that we contact and get no response from for a period of time
<wolfb8> <JimScotti> I bet that is probably common to most of the =
agencies.
<EvilFISH> of course there should also be a central local for removed =
caches to be picked up by the owners who are unable to remove them=20
<Steve-TTB> Brian, I'm not certain the job should be on us. If we =
contact, and get no reply, it's litter at that point for sure.
<Cache-Quest> Would Geocaching.com pull caches, if they were told they =
were improperly placed?
<kevin> Steve, true, but I'm sure they'd be happier with us if we =
removed them.
<Steve-TTB> I'm sure they would, especially if they know we're working =
cooperatively with state agencies.
<brian-snaptek> Steve-TTB: but it would look good in the eyes of the =
land types if we aren't having abandonded caches all over the place.. =
especially if they aren't wanted
<wolfb8> <JimScotti> I think we need to just provide an extra go-between =
with the agencies. We can't control every cacher who wants to place a =
cache. But the agencies can remove them themselves too.
<Steve-TTB> V alid point, kevin and brian, but we don't need to work =
that out tonight. And again, each agency will likely have their own way =
of wanting things done.
<EvilFISH> Let the agencys know this that after they send a message to =
the owner and it is not moved by them send a note to the Main Website to =
have it pulled
<EvilFISH> simple
<Steve-TTB> Jim has a point. One thing we must all do is make the =
agencies understand that none of us has any authority, not even as =
elected representatives of an organization. We are just an informal =
group of concerned geocachers.
<wolfb8> <JimScotti> If we perhaps help by creating a local guidelines =
FAQ which we can recommend to local cachers that would provide some of =
our hard earned lessons, that would go far., I think.
<brian-snaptek> EvilFISH: the main website can pull the cache entry, =
that instaly turns the cache into a big chunk of litter
<Cache-Quest> I was goin to suggest a FAQ, too. There are probably a =
set of likely questions they will all ask. Could we come up with a FAQ, =
even just for our own benefit so we speak with one voice?
<EvilFISH> ST, as cachers the main wedsite also states we as cachers can =
adopt a cache
<Steve-TTB> We can (and should) write the FAQ's and codes of conduct. =
But we can't force people to read them much less abide by them.
<brian-snaptek> ive been saving all the usefull message over a long =
period of time from the mailing list and am about ready to start =
assembling a faq
<EvilFISH> but we can all encurage them to be read and followed jsut the =
same
<Steve-TTB> Brian, Any chance you can it done by next Friday?
<brian-snaptek> I can at least have a start and we can let them know =
what holes will be filled in
<Steve-TTB> That would be great.
<Cache-Quest> Let's start a FAQ by focusing on questions the agencies =
are likely to have.
<-- JimScotti has quit (Leaving: Leaving)
<Steve-TTB> Darn, hope Jim can get back in...
<wolfb8> the people ahat are comming to this meet have as much powwer =
over there agency as we have over other cachers
<brian-snaptek> one thing that we might want/need to do and I have =
actually been avoiding doing anything like this, but make azgeocaching =
the official arizona geocaching site. That way it doesn't look like =
team snaptek is trying to force rules down peoples thoats
<wolfb8> he is trying
<Steve-TTB> Not necessarily true, Libby. Mary Estes owns the Site =
Steward program. BTW, that is federally funded and mandated. I thought =
it was state, but not so.
<brian-snaptek> ive actually alrady been working on putting together a =
site that geocaching members can run collectivly
--> JimScotti (~user@3cf137b8.22cbf9e3.ipt.aol.com) has joined #meeting
<EvilFISH> true but it is human nature to follow the crowd and if we as =
Caches do it so will others
>JimScotti< CTCP VERSION
--- Steve-TTB gives voice to JimScotti
<Steve-TTB> Jim say something.
<EvilFISH> that and other words
<EvilFISH> :)
<JimScotti> Hi everyone. Had to rejoin & things seem much better... I =
can talk now - WooHoo!
<Steve-TTB> :-)
<EvilFISH> Folks can I leave and attempt a first find?
<JimScotti> Hope I didn't miss much....
<Steve-TTB> We're not going to get all the issues resolved Friday night. =
The best we can hope for is a start toward those resolutions.
<EvilFISH> And I still agree that Steve is a Good Ambassador
<JimScotti> I agree. I think we just want to make first contact, pretty =
much. Anything else is icing on the cache..er...cake.
* Steve-TTB is blushing
<wolfb8> do we even know what lukes conserns are
<Steve-TTB> A little bit. It's not the base it's the Goldwater range. I =
think Tinajas Altas may be in an area they're uncomfortable with.
<wolfb8> what about the indians
<wolfb8> do we have questionable caches there also
<Steve-TTB> There are caches on tribal lands. They will probably have to =
go.=20
<Cache-Quest> There have been some negiative run ins on Indian Land
<Steve-TTB> Now, I'm being told this. I have no first hand evidence. But =
one thing we can do is work with the agencies to get it cleared up for =
sure.
<wolfb8> steve do you have a list of caches that are being looked at
<-- EvilFISH has quit (Ping timeout)
<Steve-TTB> No, I do not. Each agency has their own, and their own =
grounds for concern.=20
<Steve-TTB> Some agencies may not have even looked at it yet.
<Cache-Quest> During the 1 on 1 sessions we should be sure to collect up =
the concerncs for later discussion
<desertsol> Any idea if we will have web access of any kind at the =
meeting? Just in case we need to pull up a cache page to help answer =
questions???
<Steve-TTB> No web access I'm pretty sure. It's a conference room in the =
Union. Unless someones got a laptop with Wireless they want to bring?
--> Trlgpsy1 (~user@18c3868a.25a73dd4.Phoenix1.Level3.net) has joined =
#meeting
--- wolfb8 gives voice to Trlgpsy1
<brian-snaptek> I carry my laptop with wireless everywhere I go=20
<brian-snaptek> (yes I had it at the campout)
<wolfb8> kewl brian
<Steve-TTB> If you're serious about that, please bring it.
<JimScotti> Anyone got a PDA??
<wolfb8> me
<Steve-TTB> Yes, Jim, but not wireless
<Steve-TTB> Welcome, Ed!
<brian-snaptek> I got that too
<JimScotti> No, but at least you can download the AZ cachepages.
<Trlgpsy1> Thanks, better late than never
<Cache-Quest> Brian clearly like toys
<Steve-TTB> Not enough memory on mine for the whole state, unless we =
don't need logs.
<JimScotti> Well, could download parts of the state anyway...
<Steve-TTB> It's a good idea.=20
<Cache-Quest> Does the room have a way to project a laptop?
<JimScotti> I don't have a PDA either - I have enough trouble keeping my =
address book and calendar on plane paper.
<Steve-TTB> Have you got a projector?
<JimScotti> YOu could rent a projector....
<Cache-Quest> I don't, but it would be nice to use one
<Steve-TTB> The room has nothing but tables and chairs, AFAIK.
<Steve-TTB> Jim, they cost $100/day and UP!
<JimScotti> Ouch - never actually checked on that... nevermindthen...
<Steve-TTB> Don't forget, we've only got six minutes on the 'PUBLIC" =
part. The rest is you and one or two agency reps.
<brian-snaptek> I MIGHT be able to bring one.. but I wouldn't plan on =
using it.... just consider it a bonus
<Steve-TTB> I fear it will actually slow us down in the environment =
we'll be working.
<brian-snaptek> I think a projector would probably just slow things down
<JimScotti> Unless you're well prepared on the presentation.
<Steve-TTB> The "presentation" is two handouts, five pages, everyone =
will have a copy.
<Steve-TTB> Now, there are two other documents that we will give them, =
but we won't be able to discuss it until the breakouts or at the very =
end.
<Steve-TTB> One of these is a two page writeup I did of all the other =
"Geo-games". -Dashing, Letterboxing, etc. I want them to know we're not =
the only ones out there.
<Steve-TTB> The other document is from a British National Park, and =
describes rules and policies for letterboxing in their national park. I =
want them to know that letterboxing is 150 years old and the govt works =
with the people on it.
<JimScotti> Those both sound excellent.
<Cache-Quest> great ideas
<Steve-TTB> Jim, now you know why I was asking you about geographing.
<wolfb8> kewl
<Steve-TTB> There are 23,000 letterboxes in the UK.
<Steve-TTB> And eight in Arizona.
<JimScotti> Yeah. The connection is now apparent. Too bad it's so =
stale...
<JimScotti> Hey, I put one of those letterboxes out there!=20
<Steve-TTB> Congratulations!
<wolfb8> my roomate put one out by wickenburg
<Steve-TTB> Are there other questions or comments before we move into =
the "assignements"?
<JimScotti> I'm not really setup to do any letterboxing myself. But I =
had fun putting a kit into one of mine.
<JimScotti> Assignments - Uh Oh. SOunds like homework to me.... I'm =
too old for homework.... :-)
* Steve-TTB is waiting to see if there are any slow typists still =
working
<wolfb8> who do i get
<Steve-TTB> OK, here we go... These are in the order that the agencies =
appear on the agenda.
<Cache-Quest> I'm on the edge of my seat
<Steve-TTB> Gila River Indian Community - Chelby
<Steve-TTB> Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community - Ken (whererwee)
<Steve-TTB> Luke AFB/Cabeza Prieta NWR - Larry
<Steve-TTB> AZ State Land Department - Libby
<brian-snaptek> I want to be assigned to the person that doesn't show up =
:)
<Steve-TTB> AZ State Parks - Larry, again. Not enough cachers for all =
the agencies.
<Steve-TTB> AZ State Historic Preservation Office (Site Stewards) - Me
<Steve-TTB> Maricopa County Parks and Recreation - Brian
<desertsol> oh sure steve...take the friendliest one! ...just kidding!
<Steve-TTB> Bureau of Land Management - Bob Renner
<Steve-TTB> US Forest Service - Jim (Sorry, Jim, NASA's not coming)
<Steve-TTB> McDowell-Sonoran Preserve - Me, again
<JimScotti> We'll see if we can put some trees in space, then.
<Steve-TTB> Sierra Club - Jerry
<Steve-TTB> If any of the other invited agencies show up we'll wing it. =
Let the whining commence! ;-)
>Cache-Quest< aren't you in the serria club?
<Steve-TTB> Not even a whimper? WOO-HOO!
<wolfb8> who got mcdoweelll preserv
<Steve-TTB> I kept it because I live close by.
<Cache-Quest> Ok, where is the application for the Sierra Club?
<desertsol> I'm cool with Gila River...and willing to take anylast =
minutes.
<Steve-TTB> Try their web site?
<Steve-TTB> Thanks, Chelby, you're on it if we need it.
<wolfb8> ok i got the trust land folks
<Steve-TTB> Yep, although technically it's the whole "Land Department". =
I don't know what else they do besides the Trust, though.
<JimScotti> USFS sounds fine to me - I'm trying to remember if I've =
place any on USFS land myself, but I think not.
<wolfb8> o i will find out
<Steve-TTB> Well, Jim, you've got Catalina and Coronado down that way, =
among others, so I figured it was better than just giving you something =
with a PHX HQ.
<Cache-Quest> I'm cool, but I do wonder how the Sierrs Club got involved
<Steve-TTB> Like I said, word got around. One thing I can say the =
organizers agreed upon: NO PRESS!
<JimScotti> No problem. I've been thinking of hiding one out on FS =
land. Sounds great.
<wolfb8> good
<Cache-Quest> Oh, thank you for that.
<brian-snaptek> ..at least.. no republic
<wolfb8> i put the one on nature conservncy land...but it virtual
<Steve-TTB> Nothing with a larger circulation than azgeocaching.com, =
Brian!
<JimScotti> I put one on BLM land within about a mile or two of Nature =
Conservancy land....
<Steve-TTB> One thing I suspect we will need to do in many cases is =
explain the diff between virtuals and real ones.=20
<brian-snaptek> cool... I get to scoop the meeting.... cha-ching!
<wolfb8> 3:-0
<brian-snaptek> after that last article... i think azgeocaching might =
have a larger circulation among geocachers :)
<Steve-TTB> Okay, anything else for tonight? We'll still try to get =
together around 5 PM at the Union. And I'll mail the handouts to you =
this evening. Lete me know if you need them reformatted.
<JimScotti> I'll probably have to be wheels up heading back to Tucson =
pretty promptly after the meeting, though.
<Steve-TTB> Understood, Jim.
<Steve-TTB> I think the main thing is, if the FS representative knows =
how to reach you, the job will be done.
<Cache-Quest> I need to go. My daughter needs to type a paper. See you =
next Friday.
<Steve-TTB> Thanks, Jerry.=20
<wolfb8> later
<Cache-Quest> bye
<Steve-TTB> I guess we're adjourned. Thanks, EVERYONE, for your help and =
support!
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